I am trying 3.3-3.5 grains of TG with these 135's. It is the first I am trying this bullet. They well may be super yet, but I want to start there and work down. The last trip to the range with the 147's (Xtreme plated RN) I shot 3.2, 3.3, and 3.4 grains of TG and they all stayed subsonic. That was out of a 7 3/4" barreled CZ Scorpion.