JTD, I spent a few hours at the range yesterday and wanted to follow up on this. All of the loads with the 135 gr Xtremes and Titegroup remained subsonic in my Scorpion. The 3.5 gr grouped just under an inch (through chrony, from bench) from 25 yds. It was also just barely subsonic. Very happy with this load, I may drop it down to 3.4 to assure subsonic, but this is a certain favorite.