Winchester model 70 243

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08-07-2019, 04:33 AM
Kbeaton

Winchester model 70 243

I inherited a Winchester model 70 from my grandfather after he passed away. My wife has taken to it and claimed it as her new deer gun. I have chosen the 95 gr nosler ballistic tip as my deer bullet in that caliber. Yesterday I loaded up loads with two different powders H4350 and H4831. None of the groups impressed me. It’s got a 3-9 leupold on it from the 80’s so the glass was against me. Did I miss something on the powder combo or is working on the gun(bedding,new scope) my next option? I’ll also toss out that it was 100° yesterday and the barrel heat and mirage was not in my favor

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08-07-2019, 05:32 AM
JeffreyDeGraff

Those two powders are solid choices for 243 with 95gr bullets. If the scope is clear there shouldn’t be an issue with it (unless there is internal damage you can’t see). Shooting groups with a bunch of mirage is tricky to say the least. I would make sure the action screws and scope mounts are tight, and retest those loads in the early morning before temps get bad. On another note, that being an older rifle, the barrel is probably not free floated which could cause you shots to wander as the barrel heats up.

JTD
08-07-2019, 07:33 AM
SAWMAN

Do you have any of the lighter bullets in .243" ?? Perhaps a 85gr.
Any NosParts or Barnes solid copper design.
Will she be shooting long range whitetails only ?? Any antelope?? --- SAWMAN
08-07-2019, 07:40 AM
Kbeaton

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyDeGraff

Those two powders are solid choices for 243 with 95gr bullets. If the scope is clear there shouldn’t be an issue with it (unless there is internal damage you can’t see). Shooting groups with a bunch of mirage is tricky to say the least. I would make sure the action screws and scope mounts are tight, and retest those loads in the early morning before temps get bad. On another note, that being an older rifle, the barrel is probably not free floated which could cause you shots to wander as the barrel heats up.

JTD

I did go through the rifle and checked screws and what not, everything looked good. To be honest I bet this rifle hadn’t had a box of shells through it before I got it. He ordered a 223, 243 and a 270 all matching model 70 feather weights. He only hunted with the 270. I will retest though. Thanks for the reply.

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08-07-2019, 07:45 AM
Kbeaton

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAWMAN

Do you have any of the lighter bullets in .243" ?? Perhaps a 85gr.
Any NosParts or Barnes solid copper design.
Will she be shooting long range whitetails only ?? Any antelope?? --- SAWMAN

Well we live in northern ND and sometimes the shots can get pretty far. She shoots very often and is pretty humble about her capabilities if you know what I mean. We applied for the speed goats so we’ll see if she gets a tag. I’m kinda stuck on this bullet though. I’ll give it another go when it’s not so hot out. I did measure the chamber am realized the bullet was making a huge jump so I can fix that too. All the groups were 1.2-1.9” so I’m not terribly concerned. I aim for under 1” for hunting loads.

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08-07-2019, 10:28 AM
SAWMAN

Were those 9 or 10 twist guns ??
Your choice of bullet will be the most accurate. Nothing wrong with the BalTip . . . especially at the longer ng ranges where the bullet has a chance to slow down a bit.
The older Leupolds were the VARI-X ones. I still have several. I was never a fan of the non-click scope adjustments . . HOWEVER . . once you get them set,they stay right there. My wife has been using a VARI-X one,3.5-10X50 on her 30-30 AI now for the last 20 years. Still a great scope.
If you bbl is not floated, if it gets hot it will most likely string 5 shots vertically. These bbls are quite easy to float. If problems persist you might want to give that a try. --- SAWMAN
08-07-2019, 02:17 PM
Flyeralan

Many years of hunting with a model 70 in 243. First whitetail and then PA groundhogs. Always had great success with IMR 4350 with everything from 60 to 100 grain projectiles, did bed the action and float the barrel but other than that it was stock. The single thing that made the most advance in accuracy for me was the OAL. That thing shot great with 10-15 thou jump and anything else opened up the groups big time. Sadly, the throat is gone in that model 70 and it sits in my safe and I'm not sure what will happen to it.
08-07-2019, 04:04 PM
SAWMAN

Sounds like it is time for a re- barrel. Anything with a 243Win bolt face.
There are quite a few choices. --- SAWMAN
08-07-2019, 05:23 PM
Flyeralan

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAWMAN

Sounds like it is time for a re- barrel. Anything with a 243Win bolt face.
There are quite a few choices. --- SAWMAN

Yep, already had a discussion with my smith about it, just have too many other projects going on right now.
08-07-2019, 06:41 PM
PapaJ

Real nice rifle you have. You may need to check headspace. Those model 70s don't tend to wear out of they are cared for unless you shoot tons of high speed (top + load charges) rounds.

It isn't a simple fix, but as Sawman said, it could be due for a rebarrel. Good thing is, Winchester still makes them.

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08-07-2019, 06:45 PM
Flyeralan

Lol, I know that rifle like the back of my hand. Shot many thousands of rounds and a whole lot of critters. As the throat eroded away, I kept pulling the bullet out farther and farther to maintain the jump and good groups. I ran out of bullet, even with the heavies.
08-08-2019, 02:08 AM
SAWMAN

Depending on the contour you could stub the barrel.
But to me a rebarrel would be best. Around the same price,could change twist to 1:8,could change contour,switch to stainless,and have it floated. You could also have the gunsmith turn you a 11degree target crown.
All just possibilities. ---- SAWMAN
08-08-2019, 06:17 AM
Kbeaton

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAWMAN

Were those 9 or 10 twist guns ??
Your choice of bullet will be the most accurate. Nothing wrong with the BalTip . . . especially at the longer ng ranges where the bullet has a chance to slow down a bit.
The older Leupolds were the VARI-X ones. I still have several. I was never a fan of the non-click scope adjustments . . HOWEVER . . once you get them set,they stay right there. My wife has been using a VARI-X one,3.5-10X50 on her 30-30 AI now for the last 20 years. Still a great scope.
If you bbl is not floated, if it gets hot it will most likely string 5 shots vertically. These bbls are quite easy to float. If problems persist you might want to give that a try. --- SAWMAN

This is a 1-10. The scope was great in the northern Michigan woods but lacks out here on the prairie. Floating the barrel maybe the easiest quickest cheapest thing to try.

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08-08-2019, 06:19 AM
Kbeaton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyeralan

Many years of hunting with a model 70 in 243. First whitetail and then PA groundhogs. Always had great success with IMR 4350 with everything from 60 to 100 grain projectiles, did bed the action and float the barrel but other than that it was stock. The single thing that made the most advance in accuracy for me was the OAL. That thing shot great with 10-15 thou jump and anything else opened up the groups big time. Sadly, the throat is gone in that model 70 and it sits in my safe and I'm not sure what will happen to it.

I just neck sized and set the next batch at 10 thou off. We’ll see how this goes. I only have a lee neck sizer in this cal and I’m not sure if I’m a fan or not. Neck tension doesn’t seem tight enough.

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08-08-2019, 09:55 AM
Flyeralan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kbeaton

I just neck sized and set the next batch at 10 thou off. We’ll see how this goes. I only have a lee neck sizer in this cal and I’m not sure if I’m a fan or not. Neck tension doesn’t seem tight enough.

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As always, if you are not real experienced with loading the bullets close to the lands, please be aware that being against or into the lands can cause pressure spikes. Also, make sure you have enough bullet inside the case, especially if you are already questioning your neck tension. Loading only one in the chamber will help avoid setback. Let me know how this works for you.

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08-13-2019, 10:46 AM
Kbeaton

Lesson learned about shooting in that kind of heat. I just reshot the same loads and got great results. The ones I neck sized only also produced good results. I have another 243 that I may use at some point and if the full length loads shoot well in that gun I’m not going to worry about neck sizing. I think seating the bullet longer also helped a bunch

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08-13-2019, 11:43 AM
SAWMAN

HUGE swings in temp can have a big effect on ballistics.
When I lived in Maine I would typically reload all my ammo in the summertime. Our house did not have air conditioning and it would be 75degs inside.
The problem was . . . . my 223Rem ammo was shot on a 10 above to a 10 below night while coyote hunting in Jan and Feb.There would be a pretty significant drop in velocity until I learned how to load for it. ---- SAWMAN
08-13-2019, 12:24 PM
JeffreyDeGraff

Glad it worked out!

JTD
08-13-2019, 04:23 PM
Kbeaton

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAWMAN

HUGE swings in temp can have a big effect on ballistics.
When I lived in Maine I would typically reload all my ammo in the summertime. Our house did not have air conditioning and it would be 75degs inside.
The problem was . . . . my 223Rem ammo was shot on a 10 above to a 10 below night while coyote hunting in Jan and Feb.There would be a pretty significant drop in velocity until I learned how to load for it. ---- SAWMAN

Hey sawman. How much if any difference have you noticed with one brand of brass to another? Say you have a pet load with hornady brass then switch to Winchester?

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08-13-2019, 05:04 PM
SAWMAN

The differences are substantial. I have found that some of the most consistent is Privi Partizan,Seller & Bellot,and Lapua.
I sort my brass by weight. Win,Fed,Rem,Hornady,etc,etc. And different chamberings . . . 308,243,223/5.56,etc,etc. If the weight of different brass is within 2%,I use it. No matter the headstamp.
Of course I trim to length,chamfer the mouth,deprime,square primer pocket,debur flash hole . . . then weigh on a digital scale.
The name of the game is CONSISTENCY. --- SAWMAN

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