Non-Lead Monometal .375WIN Projectiles.

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09-13-2018, 06:07 PM
Desertdoc

Non-Lead Monometal .375WIN Projectiles.

So, I picked up a Win. 94 Big Bore XTR in 375 Win. Only one small problem. This is the last year for lead in CA for hunting. Does anyone know of anyone making a monometal FP projectile for lever guns? Barnes and Nosler have nothing. What are other lever gun shooters in California doing?

Lehigh, Peregrine and Cutting Edge makes solids that would work, but very pricy and made for dangerous game.

I did find...

Nosler does make a 260Gr 375 solid with FP, but again about 65 bucks for 25. That might not be bad for California deer, big and slow, I guess there is no need to expand much.

What’s your take on this?
09-13-2018, 06:33 PM
RustE

Non-Lead Monometal .375WIN Projectiles.

I am surprised that Barnes does not have something in their TSX line. They even make .30-30 bullets.
09-13-2018, 07:02 PM
Desertdoc

We have plenty of copper options, we have plenty of .375 projectiles.

What we don’t have is copper, flat point 375’s for lever guns.

I have found few options and they are between $1.50-$3.50 per projectile.

Oh well, you don’t buy a Ferrari then complain about gas mileage.:biggrin:
09-14-2018, 01:13 PM
Lewdogg21

Desertdoc - Try maker's

http://makerbullets.com/products.php?cat=3&scri=91,53

I'm going to buy some of their 35 for my 35 Rem (marlin 336) for CA big game.
10-18-2018, 08:35 AM
Bmatt

Im in california hunting this year and was under the impression lead was a no go already

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10-18-2018, 08:36 AM
Wes Sage

Yep, lead is a no go in California. He is looking for a bullet he can use in his 375 Win, but they are spendy!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmatt

Im in california hunting this year and was under the impression lead was a no go already

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10-18-2018, 08:42 AM
Bmatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Sage

Yep, lead is a no go in California. He is looking for a bullet he can use in his 375 Win, but they are spendy!!

Yea he mentioned the lead free law goes into effect next year. I did some googling and founf out im hunting in the condor cinservation area so the lead free BS has been in effect for a couple years now here. Im glad i dont live in this state any more.

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10-18-2018, 08:46 AM
Wes Sage

For sure!!
More laws going in everywhere, not just there. Most are designed to mess with gun owners one way or another

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmatt

Yea he mentioned the lead free law goes into effect next year. I did some googling and founf out im hunting in the condor cinservation area so the lead free BS has been in effect for a couple years now here. Im glad i dont live in this state any more.

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10-18-2018, 09:05 AM
Lewdogg21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Sage

For sure!!
More laws going in everywhere, not just there. Most are designed to mess with gun owners one way or another

Ding, Ding! We have a winner. The lead ban was pushed through due to a flawed study showing a disproportiantely high levels of lead in the California Condor which is a gigantic flying buzzard. I have a buddy in the condor range and he frequently has them on his property. In fact in July I was at his ranch in the condor zone, shot a pig, and we dumped the guts out for the scavengars. WHile I was napping in the Air conditioned trailer he watched a condor on the gut pile with some turkey vultures. Point is they are around his place a lot. He's told me of watching them eat so much that they can't fly. He says they appear to be a particular type of "stupid" in the animal kingdom. They eat batteries and other junk as well.

In the end the "study" that kicked off the condor zone was found to be flawed as lead levels INCREASED after the lead ban was in place. Turns out those dumb birds were eating naturally occurring lead, paint chips, or something else. While the performance of copper is impressive at this point of their development having it forced down your throat literally is not something I am in favor of or approve of.

California, leading the US in stupidity one law at a time.
10-18-2018, 09:14 AM
Bmatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewdogg21

Ding, Ding! We have a winner. The lead ban was pushed through due to a flawed study showing a disproportiantely high levels of lead in the California Condor which is a gigantic flying buzzard. I have a buddy in the condor range and he frequently has them on his property. In fact in July I was at his ranch in the condor zone, shot a pig, and we dumped the guts out for the scavengars. WHile I was napping in the Air conditioned trailer he watched a condor on the gut pile with some turkey vultures. Point is they are around his place a lot. He's told me of watching them eat so much that they can't fly. He says they appear to be a particular type of "stupid" in the animal kingdom. They eat batteries and other junk as well.

In the end the "study" that kicked off the condor zone was found to be flawed as lead levels INCREASED after the lead ban was in place. Turns out those dumb birds were eating naturally occurring lead, paint chips, or something else. While the performance of copper is impressive at this point of their development having it forced down your throat literally is not something I am in favor of or approve of.

California, leading the US in stupidity one law at a time.

Ive heard all about the garbage studies. We all know they were pushed through to make things more difficult than gun owners and in reality had nothing to do with the condors.

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10-18-2018, 09:35 AM
Wes Sage

Agreed!! Just limit people that own guns with BS regulation, and make it so expensive to shoot, that people stop buying guns. That is their plan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmatt

Ive heard all about the garbage studies. We all know they were pushed through to make things more difficult than gun owners and in reality had nothing to do with the condors.

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10-18-2018, 09:37 AM
Bmatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Sage

Agreed!! Just limit people that own guns with BS regulation, and make it so expensive to shoot, that people stop buying guns. That is their plan

Luckily manufacturers are doing what they can to make lead free stuff as affordable as possible. But i dont see it being much longer before it will be nearly impossible to hunt in california let alone own a gun.

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10-22-2018, 07:01 AM
Forpest

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmatt

Ive heard all about the garbage studies. We all know they were pushed through to make things more difficult than gun owners and in reality had nothing to do with the condors.

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I hate to piss on someone’s cornflakes, but I am a scientist. A tree scientist, but I spent much of the last 30 years working with wildlife scientists. A fairly close friend is a wildlife veterinarian. I also have friends involved in condor management in Arizona. The science shows that lead bullets, even when passing through, leave fragments. Some folks culled some deer, x-rayed the entire deer, and saw the lead fragments. Gutted the deer normally. Fragments in gut pile and in carcass. I’ve seen the xrays; my wildlife vet friend said they were real. (Just an aside, these leave no trace, and can be found in processed meat, which we eat. Studies haven’t reached a clear consensus whether deer hunters have higher lead in their blood than non venison eaters, but I know what I would do![emoji3]). The problem is that condors are VERY sensitive to lead poisoning. The research that I am aware of shows that there is sufficient lead in one gut pile to poison a condor. But they don’t often get the whole gut pile. When the birds stop moving for a few days (tracking collar) they capture the bird, clean the lead out of its blood, and put it back on the street. Some birds get “processed” a couple times a year. IN THE FALL after big game hunting seasons start! That is why FISH AND GAME departments are pushing for lead free ammo in condor ranges. These guys are shooters friends, they need shooters. The “bad science” that people point to is that science cannot connect the lead in a brand of bullet to a particular condor. And there is no way to do that. But the preponderance of lead in gut piles and I retrieved animals, the condors feeding habits, and the timing of the illness all strongly suggest that lead bullets are the cause. Also, condors can move several hundred miles in a day. Arizona condors often show up in Wyoming, and could get lead along the way even though parts of Arizona is lead free.

No big deal, we don’t have condors. It is coming. Not from little old laidies in tennis shoes, but from your local game and fish department. Many large birds are also apparently susceptible to lead poisoning. Think bald eagles, which also feed on carcasses. Minnesota loses 40-60 bald eagles each fall after the big game season starts. It was thought that the lead was coming from ducks wounded by hunters still using lead shot, but there are very few violations of the steel shot regulation. Thinking now is that the lead comes from carcasses. Another 2-3 dozen eagles get treated. And these are the ones that are found. How many more are not found? They are researching this now. So are Michigan, Wisconsin, at least one of the Dakotas, Montana, and Utah. That I am aware of.

We have alternatives to lead hunting bullets that perform equal to or better than lead. The cost of using them on a hunting trip is less than a case of beer. Why do we resist doing the right thing and try to minimize collateral damage to other wildlife? People bitched about steel shot for waterfowl, but today we have many affordable alternatives. The NRA pushes the paranoia, but talk with YOUR wildlife biologists, and find out if there is a problem where you hunt. We can either do the right thing and lead the way, or we will be forced by our wildlife manages and/or a judge.

End of rant, it some of those scientists are my friends, I know they are good scientists doing what is right, and I hate to see them bashed by people who are ignorant of the science or have been mislead.

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