Sawman!

I found these cast performance bullets hiding on my shelf, forgot I even owned them. I used this style of bullets religiously in my leverguns ( 44mag, 454, 480, 45-70, and 444) up until about 5 years ago. I know sawman really likes this style of bullet, so when I found these I immediately thought of himhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5851d8d008.jpg and loaded them with my old pet load. 21.5gr h110, large pistol primer, 1.600”. The ring at the top of the bullet is from the swc seating stem, it never affected function or accuracy. Im going to see if they shoot as well as I remember.


JTD

Sorry sawman, no .416 bullets on my shelf.


JTD

Still got some of them. Those bullets shot GREAT in my 44 lever gun (Win Mod 94 Trapper) and my 444Marlin lever gun. Killed moose and bear with them out of the 444 when living/guiding in Maine.
Used the same brand and style in 454Casull,458Lott,45-90Express,and 500S&W rifle.
Great bullet,super nose design.
My Express (Ruger #1B,45-70, punched out to 45-90Express) put one about 5ft thru a 940lb bull moose. Bullet was a 405gr. Recovered,it weighed over 385grs. It shattered two ribs going in and broke the offside shoulder. I found it just under the skin on the far side.
It was as going away,quatering shot. As stated,the bullet went thru about 5ft of moose jelling both lungs. --- SAWMAN

I never shot anything Big, like moose or bear, to put these bullets to the test. I have killed a bunch of animals with them. They all died and all were retrieved, some ran some died on the spot. They always performed for me though. I remember a poor armadillo at about 25yds took a 410gr WFNGC bullet, from my 480 Ruger lever action. That was a sight to behold, there wasn’t much left of him.


JTD

And IMO,a real plus for these bullets is the wide meplate. It acts like a leather punch and leaves a open hole that readily leaks/squirts blood.
Using these bullets I have tracked many animals that blood was on both sides of the game trail. This bullet (440gr),coming out of my 18" 500S&W rifle is devastating on even the biggest of hogs. --- SAWMAN

I’ve got some 500gr hornady flat points to try out of my 500 handi Rifle. I am going to look for some hard cast to try also.

Here’s a pic of my 410gr 480Ruger armadillo slaying load. Love that Big flat tip.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a6f55579a1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b59cfc49e5.jpg


JTD

The middle gun is my chopped (18" bbl and 13.0" LOP) 500 Handi. It wears a 2.5X heavy duplex Leupold. --- SAWMAN

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAWMAN

The middle gun is my chopped (18" bbl and 13.0" LOP) 500 Handi. It wears a 2.5X heavy duplex Leupold. --- SAWMAN

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Love it. I’ve been wondering which optic to mount on it. That seems perfect.


JTD

I talked to a Leupold rep before buying that scope. Told him my intended purpose for it and explained the possible g- forces that it could encounter.
He stated that this scope was developed for some of the heavy recoiling guns that were used in Africa and hunting the big bear in different parts of the world. The thick crosshair retical is also designed not to shear from the g-forces generated. He told me at what forces these scopes were tested at,and it was huge,although I cannot remember the specifics.
It has generous eye relief and is clear and bright. The extra thick retical really helps during periods of low light and in cloudy/shady conditions. --- SAWMAN

I sent Leupold a message asking for their recommendation. Their product line has changed considerably, and I was having trouble finding what I was looking for. The only 2.5x I saw was on their ultralight fx-2


JTD

Your right. Almost their entire scope line has changed in the last 5 years or so. IIRC my scope is about 7 or 8 years old.
I thought about putting a lighted scope on my gun but was not sure how the electronics would handle the recoil. It would be nice to have though.
You might take a look at either Nikon or Burris. One of the two offers a few scopes with a constant 4" eye relief. It could be a plus for heavy recoiling guns.
If that 500 is not all the fun you can handle you could give my 10ga "carbine" a try. A 766gr slug at 1200fps. No scope for this gun. Red dot mounted waaaaay forward. --- SAWMAN

I’m thinking the Leupold fx-II 2.5x20 is the scope I need. They don’t offer it in heavy plex anymore, just wide plex.


JTD

Would suggest that you take a look at the Leupold line of turkey/ML scopes. They come in 1-4X24 or 2-7X33 IIRC. I have a few of them and are used on my 444Marlin lever gun,single shot 444Marlin,45-70 lever and single,and even a 45-90Express shooting "almost" 458Win Mag loads.
They all have the Leupold "Heavy Duplex".
I have been getting them from Cabela's for some years now. I get the $20. off coupons and using that the scopes are <$185.
In a closer range,lower powered scope,the heavy duplex is a must for me. And set to 1X I have learned to shoot with both eyes open at <35yds or so. --- SAWMAN
ADDED: In my pic of the three Handi's above,the scope on the top gun and botton gun are the 1-4X24 's.

Anyone know of a good source for a hard-cast, gas-checked bullet in 10mm/200 grain? It seems that many of these manufacturers that used to make them are no longer doing so...I know that Double Tap sells one ( http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.p...product_id=269 ) but just wondering if anyone knows of another vendor.

EDIT: I found the Cast Performance bullet on Graf and Sons...I think I'll give that one a try, along with the DT flavor, which is actually a bit cheaper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cynjon

Anyone know of a good source for a hard-cast, gas-checked bullet in 10mm/200 grain? It seems that many of these manufacturers that used to make them are no longer doing so...I know that Double Tap sells one ( http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.p...product_id=269 ) but just wondering if anyone knows of another vendor.

EDIT: I found the Cast Performance bullet on Graf and Sons...I think I'll give that one a try, along with the DT flavor, which is actually a bit cheaper.

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Awesome! I was just about to tell you I had no idea. Lol


JTD

My bullets and some new Starline brass arrived today. Quick shipping by Graf and Sons!

The Double Tap bullets came really nicely packaged, in individual trays. However, the Cast Performance bullets are just "nicer" looking. I'm interested to see how they load/shoot. The DTs are quite a bit cheaper than the CP bullets. Sorry for the sideways pics...they're right side up on my computer.

Attachment 1217Attachment 1218

Pretty little soldiers. Ready to do battle.
One day one of them mighty warriors just might have to go through both shields of a gnarly old boar hog. This is 3 inches of armor on each side.
Great packageing for those bullets.
Depending on your seater stem and cap you just might leave a small ring around the bullet,just down from the top. It will not hurt a thing. --- SAWMAN

This is the ring sawman is referring to. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e5bae29b50.jpg

Never had affected accuracy or performance.


JTD

That's it. Thanks Jeff.
You can chamfer the inside edge of the seater cap and it will make a small difference . . . but not really enough to worry about.
My 45-70 dies and my 500 dies do the same thing. No big deal. --- SAWMAN

Yep, I've dealt with the minor rings even on plated bullets if the two profiles don't agree with one another. I'm hoping to get some loaded up in the next few days. No hogs around here, fortunately, but should provide a decent defense against other toothy critters if needed. I'm going to start my handloading with Longshot and see what kind of results I get...AA#9 and 800X are options as well.

I have done some penetration tests with the DT brand of 200gr WFNGC,coming out of 6 inches of bbl.
Nothing oficial,but remember that the bullets basically folded into themselves yet retained their weight.
Some were >.700 and weighed >185grs. My medium was wet phone books and 5gal plastic pails.
The Hornady XTP's are another great bullet for these guns. The heavier,the better. --- SAWMAN

I've seen some prenetration tests (clay, water, ballistics gel) on Youtube and the pentration of these in a stout 10mm load is impressive.

Quick question on loading the hard cast bullets: I haven't done much loading of lead bullets in handgun cartridges, mostly plated or jacketed. I see the CP bullets don't have any lube in the lube grooves, and the lube in the DT bullets is sketchy and inconsistent at best (maybe 25%). Worth worrying about, or just load and shoot? What's the easiest way to re-lube or lube the grooves?

I used this,applied by just the tip of a Q-Tip. Used just a tiney bit.
Did this help in better seating ?? Seemed to. --- SAWMAN

All of the cast performance bullets I’ve used are older. They ALL had lube on them. I noticed on their website that they don’t lube any of their bullets anymore. I wonder why they don’t? Do they need lube? Are they leaving the lube off so that you can use your lube of choice on them? Hell I don’t know, but I think I may contact them and see what they have to say.


JTD

Good point. I have plenty of the older bullets also. In 429,452,458,and 500. I have not bought from them since about 2015 or maybe longer.
I would think that with no lube,even the hard lead would easily strek your bbl. I don't cast them,or know much about them,I just shoot them.
BTW . . . I have shot some outstanding groups with these (Cast Performance) bullets. MOA @ 50 a bunch of times with different guns,with scope set at 4X or 7X. --- SAWMAN

So I did a little more research, and found this on the MidwayUSA description for some CP bullets in a different caliber:

Cast Performance Flat Nose Gas Check bullets are cast from virgin alloy and produced in extremely precise and consistent LBT style molds. Heat-treated to a Brinnel hardness of 18-21, prevents fragmentation on even the toughest hide and bone. Cast Performance Bullets are known to not lead your bore and feature a specialized lube allowing bullets to be shot at high velocities. Load data is included with most of the bullets.
The special lube process used by Cast Performance produces a clear, dry lube, which is barely noticeable on the bullets. This lube is a better tinning agent than any lube previously used on these cast bullets and produces less leading in the barrel. This allows you to spend more time shooting and less time cleaning your gun. The consistency of the lube also creates less mess at the reloading bench.

Also, I found this on another forum:

Cast Performance called today, very nice guy talked for 15 minutes. This proprietary lube is good to load, and shoot without blue lube. In fact it protects the lead for long storage too.
Just FYI. Thanks for the input.

From the feel of the bullets, I'm guessing that this clear lube is a clear powder coat...it feels just like the other powder coated bullets I have. I do have some Imperial lube as well if they don't seem to be seating into the bullet easily. Time to load 'em up, I guess!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cynjon

So I did a little more research, and found this on the MidwayUSA description for some CP bullets in a different caliber:

Cast Performance Flat Nose Gas Check bullets are cast from virgin alloy and produced in extremely precise and consistent LBT style molds. Heat-treated to a Brinnel hardness of 18-21, prevents fragmentation on even the toughest hide and bone. Cast Performance Bullets are known to not lead your bore and feature a specialized lube allowing bullets to be shot at high velocities. Load data is included with most of the bullets.
The special lube process used by Cast Performance produces a clear, dry lube, which is barely noticeable on the bullets. This lube is a better tinning agent than any lube previously used on these cast bullets and produces less leading in the barrel. This allows you to spend more time shooting and less time cleaning your gun. The consistency of the lube also creates less mess at the reloading bench.

Also, I found this on another forum:

Cast Performance called today, very nice guy talked for 15 minutes. This proprietary lube is good to load, and shoot without blue lube. In fact it protects the lead for long storage too.
Just FYI. Thanks for the input.

From the feel of the bullets, I'm guessing that this clear lube is a clear powder coat...it feels just like the other powder coated bullets I have. I do have some Imperial lube as well if they don't seem to be seating into the bullet easily. Time to load 'em up, I guess!

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Awesome, thanks for that info.


JTD

Also, it looks like Grizzly Cartridge is where any inquiries into Cast Performance end up...not sure if Grizzly bought CP or if they're just sister companies. On the Grizzly home page, it has a similar comment about the lube:

About our bullets:

• OUR NEW, PROPRIETARY CLEAR LUBE NOW COATS ALL OUR BULLETS.
• Our hunting bullets are cast from LBT style molds.
• Our bullets are cast from virgin alloy and heat-treated to a Brinnel hardness of 18-21. This provides for a hard yet ductile bullet, which will not fragment, or blow-up on the toughest hide or even bone.
• We manufacture both gas checked and plain base for most popular handgun hunting calibers.
• Our bullets do not lead your bore. Our lube has allowed us to shoot our cast bullets in test rifles as fast as 3100 fps.
• Loading data is included with most of our products.

I loaded up a small ladder with each bullet type (DT and CP). Five rounds each in .1 grain increments of Longshot. I'll chrono those and see how they compare to the velocities I get from the Underwood ammo I bought. I will say that the CP bullets were much nicer to work with than the DT bullets because of the clear dry lube. The wax-based lube of the DT was messier. However, if the performance of both bullets is the same, the DTs are about 2/3 the price of the CP. Snowing again here in SD so we'll see what the weekend brings...hopefully I can get out and chrono these.