Printable View
Hint: A number of my reloading manuals says it doesn't exist, mistaken identity, erroneous nomenclature.
Even the famous Ken Waters researched it thinking this error occurred in the 1870's!
NOPE!
First mention was found about the time the 45 ACP came about which means around 1911.
EDUCATION, RESEARCH, INFORMATION, KNOWLEDGE. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...803c04f97a.jpg
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
There have been several manufacturers listing on their box the ammo as 45 LONG COLT. Armscore, Fiocchi, HSM and even Colt, to list a few.
I’m away from my books for a couple of days but best I remember the confusion started shortly after the introduction of the 45 Schofield (1875) for a more controllable, quicker loading firearm/cartridge than the 45 Colt (1873). Best I remember, several synonyms were used to describe the Schofield cartridge such as “S&W”, “Government” and “short” or a combination of the various descriptions. This started the need for a description of the 45 Colt, apparently “Long Colt” seemed appropriate. There was a slight modification to the Schofield case and it was adopted as the M1887 military ball which had near the same dimensions. This modification is more probable as the result of the “long” and “short” designations.
The 45acp (1905) probably had no bearing on the confusion of the two above. But certainly didn’t help.
I believe the term Long Colt was to distinguish between the Shoelfield and the Colt, since the Army had both and they were not interchangeable,
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
What he said ^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky31
JTD
Have you guys heard of the renowned Ken Waters? A very knowledgeable and proficient wildcatter!
In an article in Handloader Magazine was a page "Water's Notes". Mr. Waters researched where this incorrect nomenclature started also thinking it might have started in the 1870's.
He was UNABLE to find any references to a .45 long Colt UNTIL after the time the Colt 1911 .45 ACP came on the scene. I felt certain that back in the day, the cowboys were smart enough to know what cartridge their gun fired!
BTW: All my Hornady and Lyman reloading manuals say the same thing, THERE IS NO SUCH CARTRIDGE AS THE 45 LONG COLT, NEVER WAS.
Why can't the pattern of ignorance be broken?
There is no need/room for confusion in reloading!
Sent from my SM-T387V using Tapatalk
I always have called by its name. But I guess some habits are hard to break.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Go and look on a Colt SSA,Anaconda or a S&W 25-5 it clearly says 45 colt. not Long Colt
Sorry, wrong answer. Ken Waters, cartridge inventor, ballistician, author in his indepth research could find ABSOLUTELY no references to a 45 long Colt in the 1870's through 1910.
It ONLY showed up after 1911 and the 45 ACP.
I spoke to a tech at Hornady and he said that even today, there's a bunch of uneducated people out there that DON'T KNOW the difference between the 45 Colt and the 45 ACP.
The only reason that some companies are using the wrong/incorrect nomenclature is to hopefully reach these ignorant customers. Hornady, Lyman, etc, do their best to educate people but, alas, it's difficult to overcome such ignorance.
Same thing goes for people using GN as an abbreviation for GRAIN/GRAINS. Google GN? It stands for GOOD NIGHT.
GR has always been the correct abbreviation for GRAIN/GRAINS.
Handloading is complicated enough without having to deal with false or inaccurate information!
I WILL continue to use the term "45LC" for 45 Long Colt.
I WILL continue to use the abbreviation "gr" for grain and "grs" for grains.
Am wondering now . . . if I continue to do that,could it possibly get me kicked off this forum ?? (Hope not) --- SAWMAN
Rocky 31,
The late Mr. Ken Waters did a lot of research on the origins of the incorrect long colt nomenclature. He is well qualified to do this kind of search.
There was ABSOLUTELY nothing to be found in writing from 1873 (birth of the 45 Colt) until I believe after WW I. The 45 ACP was created around 1911 to go with the Colt 1911 Government model pistol.
I always believed that all the cowboys, farmers, lawmen and criminals knew without a doubt what cartridge their firearms used.
It appears that knowledge and wisdom got lost somewhere along the way as people became more "citified".
Technicians at Hornady and Hodgdon's powders say that even until this day, many people still DON'T KNOW the difference between the 45 Colt and the 45 ACP!
It appears the the firearms society is losing accurate information at an alarming rate.
I see people using **gn** as an incorrect abbreviation for **grain/grains**
And they appear to have forgotten the correct usage of caliber/cartridge. I saw one person make a statement about loading over 130 calibers. Starting at .14 caliber and going up to .510 caliber, I can't see how the numbers add up.
Makes much more sense to say that I load for over 130 cartridges.
And another thing we do to shoot ourselves in the foot is calling our firearms **weapons**. By throwing around the word **weapon/weapons** we are effectively demonizing our firearms to the general public. Folks, we don't need to create more enemies, the media already has that job down pat.
Just saying......
Sent from my SM-T387V using Tapatalk
DM: Thanks for making the point about weapons and firearms. My deceased mentors spoke of a 45 Government cartridge. It was a common round for Colt's and the S&W's. I recently read that this round did not work very well in the Smith's.